tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27951078.post3217678187545000488..comments2024-02-02T05:45:33.724-06:00Comments on Incoming: John Phippshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03245790061133614986noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27951078.post-51551954190371965002008-04-16T01:05:00.000-06:002008-04-16T01:05:00.000-06:00Although there are many horse rescue agencies, the...Although there are many horse rescue agencies, the fact is that they do not initiate to meet the needs of the huge number of unwanted horses. ? It would be great to educate people and explain that breeding isn't for everyone. Because of the excessive amounts of breeding 93% of the 100,000 horses being slaughtered every year are perfectly healthy, but the truth is the United States is over populated with <A HREF="http://www.sponsorahorse.org" REL="nofollow"><BR/>Equine animals.</A>horse rescuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03774625974472472955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27951078.post-61439262534203189642008-03-24T09:33:00.000-06:002008-03-24T09:33:00.000-06:00My brother in law breeds horses, and we talked abo...My brother in law breeds horses, and we talked about just this subject recently. His comment was that none of his horses have brands, and when they get to the age they are outliving their usefulness, chances are they are just going to be wandering the road ditches, or maybe a city park.<BR/>The reason? If he has the horse disposed of, the fee runs from $25-$100, and will probably only go up.<BR/>If he shoots it himself, he still has a carcass lying around that will be rotting, stinking, etc.<BR/>However, if a horse is found wandering around in a park, or roadside, it is the government's responsibility. <BR/>He, as well as most of his horse-raising friends are taking this as a slap in the face from 'big city government' and would have no problems conscience-wise hauling the horse to the outskirts of the nearest city & letting them take care of it.<BR/>As he put it, the 'big city government' people have taken something of his, that had a value of $500 or better, and suddenly it is going to COST him $100 to get rid of it, effectively costing him $600+ per horse. Imagine the outcry (and used cars lying around) if suddenly instead of being able to sell old cars for scrap, you had to PAY someone to haul it off for you.<BR/>I agree with carole on the one hand that they shouldn't be slaughtered in an inhumane way, but instead of just banning horse slaughter, perhaps we should look for a more humane way to do it. Personally, I don't see how just leaving horses to die, or more or less forcing the horse owners to kill them themselves can be more humane than proper technique used at a slaughterhouse. 'Saving' a horse from a slaughterhouse doesn't necessarily mean 'saving' the horse. Around here, anyway (Nebraska) horses are primarily used for working with livestock, and when they go to slaughter it is usually because they are old or injured, and it is more humane to end it quickly than let it suffer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27951078.post-10378294865665762442008-03-23T10:41:00.000-06:002008-03-23T10:41:00.000-06:00ALL:1. Happy Easter2. Thank you for reading my wor...ALL:<BR/><BR/>1. Happy Easter<BR/>2. Thank you for reading my work and your thoughtful comments.<BR/><BR/>James:<BR/>I do not place any credence in the domino theory of ending slaughter, i.e. if we horse slaughter is stopped cows will be next. The politics of an industry built around meat consumption as the only purpose is vastly different than the equine industry for which consumption was only a tiny subsector.<BR/><BR/>To seems to me we gotta stop knee jerk reactions to organization names as well, whither it's PETA, or EWG or OPEC. It is inefficient and inaccurate. Worst of all it virtually precludes finding any solutions to problems.<BR/><BR/>Carole: I can almost hear the loud and numerous amens to your articulate and heart-felt words. We simply disagree on several points.<BR/><BR/>Your strong emotional attachment to horses is as inexplicable to me as my indifference is to you. Not all people from that attachment. Perhaps this you feel this diminishes my "humanity" but I have searched my conscience, scripture and human cultural traditions for guidance and found little to suggest it is an essential part of being human or moral.<BR/><BR/>In fact, although this may be upsetting, as an engineer the horse represents to me an astonishing investment of energy, as do all large mammals. Nature abhors vacuums, but also waste, and such a mass of hard to manufacture molecules would never be allowed to simply dissipate if man were not involved. Horses may be many things but one aspect of their intrinsic nature is to be consumed as prey. I do not say this to be unkind, but to acquaint you an uncomfortable fact that those like me who do not share your bond with horses may not necessarily do so because of moral defect, but after sincere reflection. <BR/><BR/>Your reference to horses and this country also called to mind a lecture I just listened to (more in a later post) about the "Columbian exchange" whereby after the discovery of the New World. Europe got potatoes, corn and syphilis from America. America got rabbits, smallpox and horses. And it changed this continent forever. Horses are immigrants like most Americans, and a symbol of a culture predating 1492, as I see it.<BR/><BR/>Millions of Americans support your views passionately, hence my observation this problem will have to become oppressively burdensome before any compromises will be found, I fear. I hope it does not, but I will revisit the evidence in a later post in an effort to at least offer civil discussion.<BR/><BR/>m & j:<BR/><BR/>My suggestion for licensing is arguably not a stroke of genius, but an effort to fund the inherent economic externalities of disposal, long-term care, etc. as well as discourage horse ownership by those who cannot responsibly undertake it. <BR/><BR/>I'm open to other ideas, but we seem to be compiling a considerable list of unacceptable solutions, and a remarkably short file of ideas both sides will even consider. <BR/><BR/>Consequently, I expect this stalemate to produce some really painful situations as we progress determinedly along the current path.<BR/><BR/>I think we can do better, even it if takes a few tries.John Phippshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03245790061133614986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27951078.post-62176914187601924332008-03-23T09:40:00.000-06:002008-03-23T09:40:00.000-06:00Horses are NOT a car and you cannot treat them lik...Horses are NOT a car and you cannot treat them like a car. You can't even pretend to treat them like a car! Even if you could treat them like a car -- you have a salvage yard as an option for your car!!! When your car outlives its useful life, it goes to the junkyard. Are horses livestock or a pet? As a horse breeder, I don't always get the quality of animal I was breeding for. The slaughter market sets a base price. With no base, you have no market. You can't even give them away. We will only hear more about horses being turned loose. <BR/>If you raise show cattle, you at least have the option of sending the cattle that aren't show quality to market.<BR/>We raise horses and we try to sell all of ours privately but we do understand that the slaughter market has its place and is needed. It is part of the circle of life. If you grow up on a farm, you are taught and I believe, have a better understanding of that circle of life. That everything does die. It is part of nature. <BR/>You have a bunch of newbies coming in and buying horses due to the fact that the market is so bad and you can buy one really cheap. Then you learn that it costs a lot to keep one. Then the neglect comes into play. How does that help the situation or anyone involved?? <BR/>PETA loves the fact that horses aren't being slaughtered but have they done anything to help solve the problem they have created?? Why don't they just go around and buy up all of those horses they have "saved" and find out what the real world is like?? <BR/>Do you honestly believe that PETA will stop with the horse industry slaughter? They will go after the cattle and hogs and sheep . . . then what will happen? Horses are slaughtered for human consumption as well.Myra & Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07358384030464552540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27951078.post-73017683750285400322008-03-23T07:12:00.000-06:002008-03-23T07:12:00.000-06:00Actually, no, they don’t shoot the horses. A mor...Actually, no, they don’t shoot the horses. A more accurate title for your column might read, “They take a camp pony that someone’s daughter rode all last summer in Maine, stun him multiple times with the captive bolt while he struggles in great distress, and then string him up - hopefully unconscious – and slit his throat until he bleeds to death, don’t they?” <BR/><BR/>Readers of this column should know that horses going to slaughter are for mostly not shot. Shooting would be too humane. They are killed via captive bolt, and it is a shocking thing to witness, for it does not work well with horses. Veterinarians For Equine Welfare have roundly denounced this method of killing horses at slaughter, for it is an ineffective method for equines and causes great suffering to the horse in his last hour of life. <BR/><BR/>Humanitarians around the country are horrified by the many injustices of the horse slaughter process. Not to mention the fact that most Americans find the idea of consuming horseflesh to be repulsive. To paraphrase one outraged Texan: We don’t eat Trigger in the United States. <BR/><BR/>Why is there outrage? Americans do not view horses the same way they view cattle and other animals bred for human consumption. Horses are not bred for food. Your viewpoint steadfastly ignores this important point. They are performance animals and companion animals. To most Americans, this is a betrayal of Traveler, Trigger, Ficka, The Black Stallion, Mr. Ed, Seabiscuit, Hidalgo and Barbaro. <BR/><BR/>With regard to economics, the horse industry has been overproducing horses for years, and this is because it has been so easy to “get rid” of horses when it is inconvenient to keep them. The horse slaughter industry has been alive and well in large part because the public did not know of it’s existence. As with any glutted market in a free market economy, a market correction is underway in this industry. Since the U.S. slaughter plants closed, this is to be expected when supply vastly overreaches demand. While the horse rescues have increased in both number and capacity to help offset this temporary situation, killer buyers and auctions houses continue to make it difficult for the rescues to take these horses. I have seen this personally, so do not think for one minute that there aren’t enough compassionate people to help out. The horse slaughter industry kingpins have made it very difficult for the rescues. The media propaganda put out by the agricultural sector with false reports of abandoned horses everywhere, well, it’s nonsense. <BR/><BR/>As to any horse breeder intending to move from breeding horses to breeding cattle, well, you have an apples and oranges issue with that statement. Breeding and raising horses is vastly different from raising cattle. The training aspect alone is one of the most significant difference, as horses are trained for performance. Responsible horse breeding programs require a vastly more wide-ranging set of skills. For those who move from breeding horses to breeding cattle, well, good. That cuts down on indiscriminate breeders, which is what I suspect they folks are if they see breeding horses and cattle as interchangeable options.<BR/><BR/>Horses are not food animals. Humanitarian treatment of horses is simple: We must look at what is done to these majestic animals that have helped found this nation, and change their fate. I see no complexity in any of this. We are not China, where dogs are raised for food. We are the United States, where our horses - domestic and wild -have forever symbolized the freedom upon which this country has been founded. Where has our humanity gone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27951078.post-59366313585844812822008-03-22T17:32:00.000-06:002008-03-22T17:32:00.000-06:00Hey Mr. John, like you I am not a horse person, al...Hey Mr. John, like you I am not a horse person, although I have been reffered to as eating and sweating like one, but I have been refefered to as a pig, bull headed and the list goes on. I think a horse is a majestic animal. I don't own one nor do I intend on owning. It is sad that there is such a plight. It dosen't help that peta is involved. Like the naacp I don't have much use for organizations that exist just to sue any one at any time for any reason.<BR/> Don't you think that this is happening to other livestock as well?? but Livestock Farmers have a lot more options.Ol Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08104714377087960892noreply@blogger.com